Opinion Wanted

[GMCRACER]

A lot of you on this site know my car (orange 88 Camaro).

The car has been mid 9's at 140 on 114 gas w/o nitrous and I am thinking of changing it over to this E85 stuff (mainly for the cost of racing)

It has run 8.80s over 160 with VP N2O and nitrous, this is the part of the E85 stuff that scares me

The motor is a 525 cid right around 15:1.

What have you guys found out in test with motors this size and with compression that high?

Even Rocket at $6 is much cheaper than VP at $13+

My though would be to get the car to run as hard as I can on motor (shoot for low 9's) and then give it a 250 hp bump out the back end.

What are your thoughts? And how much is Pro Systems wacking us to convert a carb to E85 (Pro Systems Gas 1250 Dom in my case)?

I wouldn't mind cutting the cost of a pass in 1/2, even if I lost the 160+ speed

Thanks in advance - George Carey

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17728999.jpg?1162235375

[Hurst390]

same problem i got buddy..15-1 is too high imo...

[alcohol]

GMCRACER- on the carb pricing issue check to see what Mark Sullens is pricing at- he knows what he is doing and has been working with E85 carb conversions a while plus racing on it himself. You can get him at; http://www.geocities.com/mark_a_sullens/MarkSullensRacing.html?1229755926750

There are several others also but I do not know about their work.

Mark could also talk you through the compression issue- what cams, head type, etc. Perhaps the Rockettbrand folks could too as they had full motor and research octane tests at Ford's performance labs as the Mustang for the Bonneville run last summer was being built up.

[GMCRACER]

same problem i got buddy..15-1 is too high imo...

I'd take the chance N/A but will not be fast enough for the field...

I may try it and screw around in the 10.0 class until I get a feel for the fuel (meaning before spraying it)... I've about perfected my set up over the last decade and a half to a point that I feel safe on race gas (on the gun)...

For me to get this tank down to 8.90/9.00 it will take 1000 hp to the tires


If nothing else I may pop in to Ryan's next weekend to b/s with the guys...

[GMCRACER]

GMCRACER- on the carb pricing issue check to see what Mark Sullens is pricing at- he knows what he is doing and has been working with E85 carb conversions a while plus racing on it himself. You can get him at; http://www.geocities.com/mark_a_sullens/MarkSullensRacing.html?1229755926750

There are several others also but I do not know about their work.

Mark could also talk you through the compression issue- what cams, head type, etc. Perhaps the Rockettbrand folks could too as they had full motor and research octane tests at Ford's performance labs as the Mustang for the Bonneville run last summer was being built up.

I saw that on another E85 board... He's around $500 to convert...

But I also saw on the Pro Systems site that they are working with Adler (whom I've been friends with for years) on an E85 set up... I may go pick his brain on the matter... Having a Pro Systems carb already I do not like the idea of sending it to someone else to cut up...

[Duane Waldrop]

Hello George,

Several guys (at least four) on here have purchased conversion kits from Heath Daniels.

His site is www.raceone85.com.

The conversion kit cost $300.00 for a dominator and $225.00 for a 4150.

You can change it back to "gas" if decide E85 is not for you.

Several of us have at least 13 to 1 and plan on "spraying" on E85. I should have my engine on the dyno in a few weeks. I will post the results.

Thanks, Duane

[drag chevette]

You can change it back to "gas" if decide E85 is not for you.




I know Heath, and he is a great guy, but this is one of the things that we agree to disagree on....


i personally feel that if a carb is optimized to work with a fuel then it should be done 100%....and once its done 100% its not that easy just to swap back.


you cant just slap methanol metering blocks into a gas carb and run methanol...then switch back to gas if you dont like it.

..i dont understand what makes people think they are getting all they can get from a carb by just changing the metering blocks for e85.

unless all aspects of the carb are changed then you will not get 100% from that carb....JMO.:think:

[drag chevette]

What have you guys found out in test with motors this size and with compression that high?



I have built a dominator carb for an 500CI engine thats running 16:1,

though detonation can occur at that compression, the cooling effect of the ethanol tends to keep it in check....when you taylor the fuel curve in the carb it will in effect take care of this issue.

[GMCRACER]

Thanks for the input guys, it is something that I will be watching and thinking about for sure...

[LNR Race Fab]

quick fuel is around 350.00 for a 4150 im not shure about the 4500 You must change the boosters on bolth no mater what any one tells you I tryed it with out doing them and it dosent work. Dont worry about the 15-1 Im pounding 13psi of non-intercooled boost to my car and have had no det. problembs

[KarsonRacing]

A lot of you on this site know my car (orange 88 Camaro).

The car has been mid 9's at 140 on 114 gas w/o nitrous and I am thinking of changing it over to this E85 stuff (mainly for the cost of racing)

It has run 8.80s over 160 with VP N2O and nitrous, this is the part of the E85 stuff that scares me

The motor is a 525 cid right around 15:1.

What have you guys found out in test with motors this size and with compression that high?

Even Rocket at $6 is much cheaper than VP at $13+

My though would be to get the car to run as hard as I can on motor (shoot for low 9's) and then give it a 250 hp bump out the back end.

What are your thoughts? And how much is Pro Systems wacking us to convert a carb to E85 (Pro Systems Gas 1250 Dom in my case)?

I wouldn't mind cutting the cost of a pass in 1/2, even if I lost the 160+ speed

Thanks in advance - George Carey

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/17728999.jpg?1162235375

George,

If this helps in anyway. My total engine compression is 15:1 and sometimes a little more. I have been successfully running E85 for 2 years now with no problems at all. I try to watch my EGT's as much as possible to keep fuel in the safe zone. Hope the info helps.

Karson

[GMCRACER]

Thanks all for the info...

It appears as this is going to be a sit it out or sell it all season for me...

[GMCRACER]

and back from the dead I am... E85 light it will be (no boost or spray)

Anyone have any positive or horror stories to share?

Checked in with Pro Systems and they seem a little steep (basically told me to sell my pro system nitrous-iv and buy a new carb rather than convert it)...

BTW - after doing a little math my compression is no more than 14:1 probably closer to 13:1... My engine builder does a lot of "guess" work

[High Roller]

I converted mine from gas to e85 with Heaths kit and its NOT just changing metering plates, there is more to it than that. We also done Pickleman's carb the same way. So far so good! And cost and ease was great! I had to make a couple tools to simplify our work, but nothign out of the ordinary.....

[Larry 1]

I agree that Heath is a good guy, but his kit does not work as it does down south up here in the midwest! We worked hard on it but after having the boosters change to 160s like Quick Fuels it was a totally different ball game it responded to jetting changes like it should have and really picked up the mid range to top end.

[GETDUSTED]

Heaths kits are quick fuels......

[Duane Waldrop]

George,

My 555 has 13 to 1 comp...

With a 36 nos jet I went 8.06 @ 168 at 3375 on E82 out of the pump (Gas City). With a 32 jet I went 8.38. With a 28 Jet I went 8.46 all on E82...

It seems to me E85 and nitrous work together pretty nicely...

I have a Pro Systems 1250 cfm Dominator.

If you have any questions, just ask...

Thanks, Duane

:yup::yup:

[GMCRACER]

George,

My 555 has 13 to 1 comp...

With a 36 nos jet I went 8.06 @ 168 at 3375 on E82 out of the pump (Gas City). With a 32 jet I went 8.38. With a 28 Jet I went 8.46 all on E82...

It seems to me E85 and nitrous work together pretty nicely...

I have a Pro Systems 1250 cfm Dominator.

If you have any questions, just ask...

Thanks, Duane

:yup::yup:

yeah can you get me a better deal than $690 to convert it?

Going to talk to Robbie (A-Team) tomorrow...

If I put my 4.30 gear in rather than 4.63 I can flip trans\convertor combos and spray... But I am still VERY scared of what you guys are doing...

The reason I doubt the compression I am told is Musi builds a 540 with the same heads at 13.5 to 1... we used his job number on the pistions... I'd bet they are the same and I have 1/4" less stroke

[GETDUSTED]

yeah can you get me a better deal than $690 to convert it?

Going to talk to Robbie (A-Team) tomorrow...

If I put my 4.30 gear in rather than 4.63 I can flip trans\convertor combos and spray... But I am still VERY scared of what you guys are doing...

The reason I doubt the compression I am told is Musi builds a 540 with the same heads at 13.5 to 1... we used his job number on the pistions... I'd bet they are the same and I have 1/4" less stroke

go to Bubba at van senus... he has them for somewhere around 300.00

[GETDUSTED]

yeah can you get me a better deal than $690 to convert it?

Going to talk to Robbie (A-Team) tomorrow...

If I put my 4.30 gear in rather than 4.63 I can flip trans\convertor combos and spray... But I am still VERY scared of what you guys are doing...

The reason I doubt the compression I am told is Musi builds a 540 with the same heads at 13.5 to 1... we used his job number on the pistions... I'd bet they are the same and I have 1/4" less stroke



there are people sprayin the shit out of their 16.1 motors on this stuff now!!!!!!

[Larry 1]

Heath supplies you with Quick fuel adjustable metering blocks but does not change the stock boosters .Which on a 750cfm 4150 they are 140s quick fuel and others use 160s on that carb. After switching to 160s it was much easier to tune thru out the complete power band. He tries to keep away from having people change the boosters on these carbs because the boosters are pressed and swedged into body.

[bubba]

George call me i have converted about 5 of them they work nice. Including my own car idles at 850rpm in gear and park. 14to1 on spray. The tune up for spray comes from wilson and works flawless. The conversion kit from Quick fuels cost is about 260.00 and i have them in stock. if you want me to change it over i can do it for 75.00 takes one night to do it. 219-741-8209 is my cell or call me at work 219-844-2900 Van Senus. thank's BUBBA.

[GMCRACER]

George call me i have converted about 5 of them they work nice. Including my own car idles at 850rpm in gear and park. 14to1 on spray. The tune up for spray comes from wilson and works flawless. The conversion kit from Quick fuels cost is about 260.00 and i have them in stock. if you want me to change it over i can do it for 75.00 takes one night to do it. 219-741-8209 is my cell or call me at work 219-844-2900 Van Senus. thank's BUBBA.

I'll scan the build sheet on my carb for you and probally give you a buzz... If you already have 'em working why reinvent the wheel...

Not saying I am going to join the 8.90 fun yet... but I gotta start somewhere

[GMCRACER]

Pretty much running this thing out of the box... I have not opened it in at least 4 years....

86 Primary Jet
55 Primary Powervalve
94 Secondary Jet w/extension
No Secondary Power Valve

[High Roller]

Heath supplies you with Quick fuel adjustable metering blocks but does not change the stock boosters .Which on a 750cfm 4150 they are 140s quick fuel and others use 160s on that carb. After switching to 160s it was much easier to tune thru out the complete power band. He tries to keep away from having people change the boosters on these carbs because the boosters are pressed and swedged into body.

We had great luck with heaths converions. Mine and Picklemans were both 4500s and they do change the boosters....4500s are EASY to convert....

Steve's was a 4150 and you are right it didnt come with boosters, but I dont think he changed his...could be wrong though. i just wondered if the blower setup threw him off any. I can understand not wanting to change them if they are that hard to change. Doesnt sound easy.

Well at tleast ya figured it out and can provide some background for anyone coming in that they may have to change them....

Only thing I dont like is that the QF metering blocks use "gas" jets and that limits you to max jetting vs the alcohol jets go much higher like pro systems uses (for those that dont know the thread sizes are different allowing larger internal orifices)

[GMCRACER]

That's interesting.... My current jetting + 30% is around 111/122... how the hell do you get around that??

[High Roller]

On gas I was about 88-90s and now run MUCH bigger than 30% area increase in orifice, not jet number. Jet numbers mean nothing if they are gas holley jets. If they are the alcohol jets then the number means something...like pro systems seems to use.

PM'd ya

[bubba]

i took out 96's and put in 104's works great. everything that you will need comes in the kit. just let me know when your ready and will get it done!

[drag chevette]

Heath supplies you with Quick fuel adjustable metering blocks but does not change the stock boosters .Which on a 750cfm 4150 they are 140s quick fuel and others use 160s on that carb. After switching to 160s it was much easier to tune thru out the complete power band. He tries to keep away from having people change the boosters on these carbs because the boosters are pressed and swedged into body.

This is correct but QFT uses A .160 booster in their gasoline carbs, the QFT E85 carbs are using a .180 booster.

If anyone needs boosters swedged, I can do it.

MarksullensE85carburetors.com

[lt1camaroman93]

I'd think if you just kept your timing curve in check, you'd be ok.