Rocket Brand e85??

[shooter]

Anyone get a solid price from them yet? I know when I talked to them a few weeks back he didnt know. Id sure like to know because its going to steer me in a pump or drum direction and that requires some motor work if I have to go the pump way.

Id like to see it in the 4.00-4.50 range....or cheaper;)

[High Roller]

I sure hope its way cheaper than that. Ill go the pump route, but again my combo should be pretty flexible for it.

[shooter]

Just heard 6.00 + a gallon for the Rocket!! HOLY CHYT! :eek:

FYI...that was straight from Rocket.

[fonz]

YEP. just was told $6.00 per gal because of additives! Im still going to run it because of constincey. But it sure is more than they told me a few weeks back. sorry guys!!!

[High Roller]

YEP. just was told $6.00 per gal because of additives! Im still going to run it because of constincey. But it sure is more than they told me a few weeks back. sorry guys!!!

NO F'n way!!!!!

I think too much emphasis is being put on a supposed inconsistency. The only (at this time) known consitency is between winter and summer blend which the gov't does mandate. E75 to E85 respectivley. So lets put this in perspective. A 10% change in 15-25% of the fuel. Do the math, its a small small tune up change.

I for one WILL run pump grade or blend my own. Also, I am doing all of us a favor (assuming it works out...lol) and trying to get hardcore E85 data sheet for pump grade. Obviously I have to have a summe blend sheet.

My biggest fear is possible racers turning away from this class due to very little benefit in fuel change from race gasoline. A big benefit was going to be cost, but now its more expensive since you have to buy either new carb or convert, buy new jets for all nitrous sytems....etc.

I am doing my best at trying to dismantle this inconsistency thing, but I may end up wrong or I need help in doing so. I really want to see this class fly (literally in multiple ways) and I want it to be succesful.

I will be runnning pump (I think Ill be ok) and I have already taked with a local distibutor about brining my own MT drum and filling it up after testing their fuel. I THINK most of the additives are already in there anyway, but plan to confirm soon.

Anyway, thast my schpeel and I hope we can ALL end up buying pump grade and have an end result work out.

Look at that chassis dyno, them guys mad 1800hp and to the best of my knowledge it was pump, but I cannot confirm that. No body made it b4 now so I can only assume. Unless they blended their own.

Any help in trying to confirm this pump info?

[High Roller]

OK here is the latest.

I have had a HEAVY conversation with a local petroleum distributor regarding E85. In a nutshell he is calling BULLSHIT. The story line of having a gov't mandated winter/summer blend (here at least) is busted. They carry E85 al the time. The supposed "variance" SHOULD be nullified as the gov't DOES mandate the 85% ethanol. He stated that the Pumps or valves or whatever he called it is checked and regulated by the gov't and that as a result the percentage should not vary more than +/- 1%.

Yes the octane is ~105 comapared to the 112 estimated by RB. So if you are basing your decision on that alone, then so be it. If you are basing your decision ont he shear consitency, then I think we are WAY overthinking this since non of us really know. As far as the claim of the differing way of measuring octane, again he calls BS. Yes ther are differing ways to measure it, but the pump type is apples to apples.

Long story short. Now way is there ~+$4/gallon performance OR stability.

BTW other E85 raceers are also calling BS on this varying percentage that are well experienced in it.

BTW we got our carb kits last friday and they look pretty simple to do ourselves!!!!!

Again, you dont have to base your decision on my invested time or work, but I am basing miune on it.

One thing left for me to do. If there is no winter/summer blend I will prove that tomorrow. I am taking my tester and buying a WHOLE gallon and test it. Ill post results tomorrow.

I have the ENTIRE MSDS sheet on the E85. If you want somn specific, please ask. Ill post it assumign it is there.

Comparing to RB density, the MSDS mentions specific gravity.

Now I will mention that the MSDS does show the range of E75 to E85 in mor ethan one place. However he stated that if it WAS NOT E85 that the seller does not get the tax break, and that they are randomly sampled accordingly. So why would someone seel anything but.

More FYI for everyone.

Liek I said all I am trying to do is support the class to as affordable as possible. The MSDS sheet is 15 pages long, so I only grabbed cetain screen shots that I though made sense.

The one screen shot is RB's info of the E85 they sell.

[alcohol]

Be careful to test the pump E85 guys- While some station owners may cheat and run full summer grade E85 year round- they do this because it is cheaper than E70 (winter) or E78 (Spring/Fall). I do not do this at the 17 stations I operate because the extra gasoline in the winter is used to raise the RVP of the E85 so that even at -20F Flex-Fuel cars will fire off as if they had gasoline in the tank. I follow the DOE specs because it is best for my customers- not my wallet. RVP of E98 is only 2.3 #, RVP of E85 needs to be held at approx 8.5 # in the winter. This was agreed to by the automakers and the DOE at the onset of FFV production.
I realize the importance of a constant E% for carb racing (keeping A/F constant) and for my customers who do race if they call me I can look up the exact blend in the station they use and the season blend switch date. Summer E85 (83% pure ethanol/17% hydrocarbon) can be 105 octane if all the hydrocarbon is natural gasoline (denaturant) or as high as 109 if it is 2% natural gasoline and 15% 87 octane gasoline. E98 is approx 113 octane (rm/2). Rocket is 108-109 motor/112 rm/2, and approx 116 research for comparison.

Here is the link to the blend charts and the seasonal blends by date for each state- blends are about the middle of the document. Near the back of it is the water test method to check samples for %;

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy06osti/40243.pdf

[High Roller]

Thats is a great info sheet!!!. Particularly on page 12 regarding additives, page 24 regarding blend info by region, the MSDS portions, etc.

Not sure who ya are, but thanks a ton!

Looks like the 40 degree latitud eline runs approx right through the center of the state......that looks like it makes a big differenc in info I am getting down here maybe.

[shooter]

Becareful with the Pump Blends....you need to either have a motor safe enough to run e70 or have a tester with you. Its not bullshyt that the blends variy from place to place and if your on the ragged edge it could get ugly.

Every big time carb and motor builder I have spoken to says 12.0-12.5.1 max on the pump stuff. SUre Ive heard all the 14-15.1 talk as well....but the guys I trust say NO!

[Hurst390]

Mike I don't know how you can claim bs on the different %'s of mixed fuel...morgan might be consistant but that doesn't mean other distributors are..read the article in the latest drag racer mag. on what they found out.....
it just looks like a huge headache to me with the pump fuel...fill up a 55gal drum then you don't have to worry about the tune change..
i think i will just come watch you guys and maybe help out if needed..I can't afford to play with this stuff without some dyno testing and $$$$

[High Roller]

Mike I don't know how you can claim bs on the different %'s of mixed fuel...morgan might be consistant but that doesn't mean other distributors are..read the article in the latest drag racer mag. on what they found out.....

Agreed. But if you find one dealer that IS consistent, dont go travelling around the country without buying fuel first. Unless you like spending that kind of money in this economic time. I just cant beleive that they can charge this price in these times.

it just looks like a huge headache to me with the pump fuel...fill up a 55gal drum then you don't have to worry about the tune change.

Thast exactly what I plan to do just for mental sake. For street driving Ill burn random pump stuff, but for competition Ill burn what i have in the drum. Dont get me wrong, I am just as nervous as anyone else (also why I am trying to learn), but I am not paying $6/gallon to run this fuel. If I am going to pay that I stick with gasoline.

One other thing I am not claiming anything, just trying to research it the best I can and try to pass on any info. I hate to see a bunch of people bent over the fence with their pants down if the price is elevated because of the unknown and nervousness of everyone. I cannot beleive that this stuff costs this much when 100% racing gasoline (depepnding uon brand/quality) is the same and only 15% of this stuff is from that. Yea additives.......but do they really add that much cost. I dont know.

[Hurst390]

I have 2 plastic barrels if you need one..i'd like to get rid of them..

[Hurst390]

quote
If I am going to pay that I stick with gasoline.

X2!

[alcohol]

Pump E85 will be fine for most folks if as other posters indicated;

-Compression is limited to 12:5 to 1 (depending on a few things like iron heads vs alum) or in boosted applications you plan for limiting it just a bit.
-You know who you are buying E85 from (known %) and you set your tune to what you can accept (E78 for example), then store it in a tighly sealed drum for periods when it is not available. If you plan for E78 and you need resupply in the summer, you can cut summer E85 with NL gas to make it E78 until E78 is available in the fall.

Nice site guys- discovered it about a month ago. Nice to see the interest down there in northeast IN and N. IL. I am up in central WI.- not a racer but have been in fuels for about 25 years or so and always interested in racing. I too am a former Hoosier.

I have not been around this site long enough to figure out what types of racing you all do but you might want to know about this event coming up down in So. IL - Drag Chevette (Mark) has posted details here;http://www.e85forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=901 Mark is a E85 carb builder.

[LNR Race Fab]

Im gunna run the pump. I work for bp in whiting the only thing you have to worry about is summer or winter blend.:dunno:

[Eve_Motorsports]

I have had no issues with pump fuel. We have ran it from 3 different sources and have had no issues at all. I'm also willing to bet we run a bit more cyl pressure then most and have had no dtonation at all. Just make sure not to make big changes when your figuring out your timing curve and you will be fine. Also if your not running a wideband with a data logger of some kind your flirting with disaster even on the street. If the wideband is functioning correctly it doesn't lie. I've found it nearly impossible to read the plugs with this stuff.